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Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards

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 Post subject: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:05 am 
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A few of us have been discussing rewards for Raid targets. To start, a Raid target would be defined as a level 200 mobile that cannot possibly be killed by less than X number of mortals, X probably being around 8 or 10.

Currently, this consists of Sauron. In the future, we will have a few more of these mobiles around. They will be extremely unique and rare, and ideally they would be mentioned in Tolkien's works and not be a random named mobile.

What has arisen is the idea of adding extra bonuses to these mobiles. One such example could be specific Raid items. A Raid target could have 1 or 2 of these items each (maybe 2, but it would only load one of the 2 at random upon death). These would be like your standard super equipment (or alliance equipment) except with some bonus stats on them, decided by the builder. (In terms of our item point system, I was thinking of a possible 33% increase, so if the item would have had 2449 hp, it would have up to 3265 hp as a Raid item.) The items would also be required to be level 150.

Since there wouldn't be an abundance of Raid targets, I can't think of any major balancing issues this would create. For now only 1 Raid target exists and possibly one per high-level area that comes out in the future (high-level being end-game areas).

What do you think of this idea? Also, do you have any other fresh ideas we could implement for Raid targets, beyond "bonus quest points"?



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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 12:22 am 

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Sounds like an awesome idea that would add a new dimension to the game.

As long as getting 8-10 players together to down a raid target is so difficult, my suggestion would be to make the items a lot better than normal items, perhaps as high as 200%. When raids become more commonplace, the items could gradually be scaled down.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:42 am 

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I like the idea a lot; it gives high level characters something to work on. I think Verilee's number of 200% is completely bonkers, though :p Suland's 33% makes a lot more sense, I'd suggest something like 25-50%.

On a semi-related note, I'd like to see more crown of pure evil type items. Currently, the builder rules state we aren't supposed to make that sort of thing. Stuff with small minuses can be found in lots of areas, like the robe Theoden has (4 damage and -0.2 dex or something like that) but really unique items like the crown of pure evil are quite scarce. That's actually the only one I can think of, other than a few in the adept-only areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:43 am 

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Sauron has been standing for what... 2 years? He's never been killed once. When he is finally killed - a dropped item or three that's twice as good as a normal item is "completely bonkers"? :p Let's have the reward match the difficulty; Sauron is far more than 25-50% harder than other mobs.

I've another suggestion concerning loot for raid mobs and it's entirely unoriginal. Why not give them a loot table, instead of a few pieces of fixed loot? The mob would drop 3 or 4 items chosen randomly from a table of 20 or so excellent items. This would encourage people to hunt raid mobs over and over (particularly people that have already gotten some loot, but not necessarily the loot they wanted).

By the way, the offer still stands to any allianced players involved in killing Sauron. I won't give specific numbers, but there is a significant bounty of aqp attached to his demise.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:56 pm 
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Nerolis:
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but really unique items like the crown of pure evil are quite scarce. That's actually the only one I can think of

Arkenstone :mrgreen:

Other than that, I agree they are scarce. Also for good reason in my opinion. I rather enjoy that 2 level 110 warriors don't end up wearing the exact same equipment in all their slots. That wouldn't be the case if there were tons of unique items out. (I realize I'm talking about an opposite extreme... you're discussing 2-4 items atm, and I'm thinking about 30+ as a huge problem. I'd agree that we could fit a few more truly unique items without item hunting becoming stale. I'd actually like to see a couple items added for casters.)

About the 25,33,50,100 % bonuses... It's hard to say what would truly be appropriate. I used 33% as an example, namely because it's an easy number for our point system for adept equipment. Depending on how many items there are, I could see it changing. The more items there are, the lower the % should be, otherwise everyone would just fully deck-out in raid gear. With too many items, whatever the % bonus is to the point system will basically equate to each player has their chosen stats (DR,attributes,etc.) boosted by that %, which isn't the main goal of this.

I see raid gear as prestige items as well. Just having it should be epic, when someone sees you with it. It should mean something. I also realize it's pointless to have an item that is difficult to get that does nothing for your character. One thing that could perhaps push the % up a bit is if I put in code to allow no_drop items to go into bags. There's a lot of corner cases, but basically, no_drop items that are also no_uncurse would not be stuck in your inventory until you destroy them. Then I could add a bind_on_equip flag (WoW concept, I'm completely open to a better flag name). Basically, once you use the item, it would get bound to you. This may even be better as a total replacement for no_drop items. I'd be more inclined to think 50% bonus is acceptable if a player was forced to be present for a kill (probably a bind_on_pickup flag).

As for multiple items per mob being loaded randomly, that can easily be done now, especially if each mob has it's own items. To quote my earlier post:
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A Raid target could have 1 or 2 of these items each (maybe 2, but it would only load one of the 2 at random upon death).

Could easily have 3 items and just load 1 of 3, etc. I do think they should be rather unique per mobile though, since we aren't randomly generating the items (in terms of what is on them, and their names, etc.). This also keeps them fairly RP. Sauron could easily fit in this mold with 2 very evil items. Maybe we could talk Feyan into changing Thorin to level 200 and giving him a couple. There are also quite a few top-level areas in the works that this would apply to (but no further details on those until we're closer to testing).

Remember, this is still just a concept/theory. So far it seems positive, but I'm completely open to more ideas, better ideas, etc. Despite how hard I fight against it, I do truly love to have someone show me up on something I have thought up/planned, constructively. There's nothing better than having the players involved in the design ideas that push Mordor to new heights. Keep the comments coming.



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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:43 pm 

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Just a suggestion, but if these items could qualify as 'quest' items, they could be bound to the person who took them after they drop. Of course, it'd be really shitty if someone did 'get all'...

Also, Thorin will never be 200, but we'll see. :P

The problem I see us running into is that there's no standard for how difficult 180+ mobs are (IE: Nazgul vs Danalxereak or Lasru), and it'll be the same with any level 200s we put in the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Quote:
a Raid target would be defined as a level 200 mobile that cannot possibly be killed by less than X number of mortals, X probably being around 8 or 10.


This wouldn't be for just any level 200 mob, or a better way of putting it is that it would have to be approved as a raid target before it could be given raid items.



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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:29 pm 

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I thought about it some more, and a potential solution is to make raid items as quest eq automatically 'bind' to the player upon the death of the mob, if the player participated in the fight. It could be rigged to automatically go to the respective player's inventory, to avoid issues with corpse sacrificing/rotting. So each player who participated in the fight would have a % chance to pull a piece of eq, rather than the mob having a chance to drop the eq, if that makes sense.

The only issue would be transferring items from player to player, I suppose, which could be done by high enough level immortals. I doubt that would be much trouble, since I doubt we'll be fighting these mobs every day.


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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:00 pm 

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Here again i see, Mordor making a transition into a very WoW-like experience, First off, i enjoyed WoW and this wouldnt bother me one bit, but even still. Now as far as "loot" My question is who determines what and how loot is distributed in a group of 10 people? the guy who hits last? Maybe we need to make some kind of distribution system, i know it would be a bit of work but when we are talking of killing a mob with 8to 10 adepts, when this RARELY happens that 10 adepts ever log in at once these peiece of gear are of extreme value to every player. Whos to say who deserve it more. I propose a RNG type roll as in WoW, out of 100. I.E. Roll 100 from there it will annouce to the room an RNG number bt. 1-100 therefore giving a random and fair chance for a piece of gear everyone would like. I very strongly propose this idea. Not just for gear but other things, a roll feature would be nice for bets, and general use. thank you =D



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 Post subject: Re: Raid Targets, Items, and Rewards
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:14 pm 
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Arkk wrote:
I propose a RNG type roll as in WoW, out of 100. I.E. Roll 100 from there it will annouce to the room an RNG number bt. 1-100 therefore giving a random and fair chance for a piece of gear everyone would like. I very strongly propose this idea. Not just for gear but other things, a roll feature would be nice for bets, and general use.

I agree that a rolling feature would be very handy, especially where raid loot was concerned.


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